Michae i. It's Michael DeFrancisco. Now I've been meditating for thirty eight years and teaching for about thirty six years. And interestingly enough, I have the same kind of history most of you have. And that means that prior to meditating I had a normal everyday life of waking, dreaming, and sleeping. And those three states of wakefulness are the three states that we're really familiar with. Those states have their transitions. You know from the state of waking you go to sleeping by setting some condition. You said a condition with a bed and some pillows and pajamas, you brush your teeth and you transition from the state of wakefulness to the state of sleep. Then like that, in the state of sleep you transition from wakefulness fairly innocently and naturally you wake up, you rub your eyes, put your feet on the floor, you get up, head to the bathroom to brush your teeth and you're off into the waking state. And those transitions just happen naturally. Those are the three states of wakefulness that you're really familiar with. In meditation we offer a different state wakefulness. That state is already there it's just not been uncovered in a natural way. And so meditation has historically traditionally been a way to uncover another state of wakefulness. The value of which is one becomes a lot more relaxed, more happy, more productive, and more loving. Innocently, naturally because this state of wakefulness that unfolds in the meditation produces a deep state of relaxation and an increased state of wakefulness itself. So that's paradoxical. It doesn't exist in waking, dreaming, or sleeping. The neurophysiological correlates for waking, dreaming, and sleeping are distinctly different then the neurophysiological correlates that are experienced in meditation. So along time ago, the ancient peoples and every culture had some way to approach or set conditions for this state of wakefulness. Meditation has always been part at least part if not the main part of every cultures approach. Now meditation has a lot of different connotations and the first thing that people think of is concentration. Some kind of effort, some kind of trying, some kind of manipulating, controlling, directing, managing. None of those things quite frankly are part and parcel to the meditation process which can unfold this natural state of wakefulness that's already there. This is really important. This state of wakefulness is already there it just hasn't been uncovered. You just don't know the conditions to set to uncover that state of wakefulness. You know the conditions to set to transition from the state of waking to the state of sleeping. You know the conditions to set from the state of sleeping to the state waking. All meditation does, and all the systems of meditation do is set the condition for you to move this new state of wakefulness that's already present. Now how does this happen? It happens naturally, innocently, effortlessly if the conditions that are set are appropriate for you, And there are many number of ways to meditate. There can be a guided meditation, a mantra meditation, there can be a it's called a oneness blessing meditation, there can be an eye transition meditation where you actually, where you actually transmit energy of the divine from one to the other. So this state of wakefulness that's available gets cultured innocently and naturally in the nervous system through meditation techniques. Interviewe M is the way you've been meditating. Michae ell I started with TM and then moved away from that into my own, yep. Interviewe o can you explain a little bit about what happens when you do TM? Michae hm. Interviewe ecause don't have to transcend. And yet you still do have some point value. People that are doing TM they report they're a lot more relaxed, they have more happiness and joy but yet they're not at that place that you were talking about. Is there a middle place? Or do you think it's being in the matter of here and you transcend? Or do you think that you do, you just meditate and you get the benefits that come to you and you just continue to do it. Michae eah, there's several questions in there. And I did start with TM in 1974. But I had my first experience of the pure light long before that. When I was eleven, twelve years old. Interviewe et's talk about that. Michae nd you know I can remember clearly in my bedroom, laying in the bed and I used to like to let the rain hit the windowsill. I used to push my bed underneath the window when it was raining. And I would lay there and I'd love when the rain would, the drops would hit the windowsill, they would disburse and they would come down to me more like a mist. And I just adored that. It felt so sensual to me. I mean I just, I just could not, that was so charming to me. And I can remember the charm itself generated a quality of innocence. Now I can do this intellectually for you now. I didn't make this intellectual understanding at that time. I was too young, I might have even been a little younger. And so the raindrops come, they disperse, the mist comes on my face and I grow naturally into the state of innocence. And the portal of innocence which I keep talking about which everyone wants to move to, it's available all the time you just need to drop into it somehow. That portal opened. And the state of grace and charm just, it's hard to describe you can't describe it. I can use metaphors and it won't work. It will inspire somebody. But the state of grace just came and I all of a sudden was a light, the light was me. And it lasted for you know, three four five minutes. I don't remember any time or space. It was so delightful and then it went away almost as quickly as it came. And the residual effect of it for me and for many people that have it I know is that, you can't, what can you say? If you go downstairs and tell the "dysfunctional family" that, "Hey guess what just happened to me?" You can't explain it to begin with. There are no words and every one of the dysfunctional family is in some dysfunctional state. So they're not as open to this. So this is part of the dilemma, the human dilemma. But when I started meditating in '74, before I started meditating I was really strongly in the sex, drugs, rock and roll energy of life. I grew up in the sixties/ You know so I naturally migrated toward all the things that could alter my waking state. That could unleash my psycho sexual nature and my romantic nature and my creative nature. Whatever it was that had to be released was going to be released one way or the other and it was just easy pickings in those days and it was fun. So I as in the sex, drugs, rock and roll energy of life.