Ton ello welcome to Lift habit TV, I'm here with Buster Benson who I consider to be the godfather of behavior change apps, he created a number of really notable ones, 43 things, health month, and bud.ge, he is someone when i was starting Lift I thought a lot about his work. thanks for coming. So taking some of what you have learned about achieving goals, we’re in the middle of a meditation challenge right now… Buste ’m in it. Ton ow is it going? Buste ts good, I’m on a 14 day streak Ton hat is your meditation practice? Buste tacked it onto my morning routine which is another habit that I’m trying to start. Ton ’m in the habit with you too. Buste o I drink a glass of water, I have a list of 4 or 5 goals that I choose from every day about things to focus on, and I just choose one that randomly pops into my head. Then I do some stretching, and then I meditate, so it’s a 5 minute meditation, I’m not going beyond 5 minutes yet. Ton ou mean meditate like just sit there and think about that goal? Buste o no no. I try to notice the fact that I don’t want to meditate or when I stop meditating. It’s to try to catch myself from that. Ton always thought meditation was the hardest thing, and then I picked up this Headspace app, which a ton of people in Lift use. Then suddenly it’s really easy… because someone is talking. Buste ecause someone is talking… that’s not meditating. Ton ou don’t think? Buste o during that time it’s not talking. Ton a but mostly he talks; I wonder if later on if he talks less? Buste a I think I made it through the 30 day thing. Ton e is still talking through that 30 days? Buste ot as much, that’s why it works. Ton ’m in the 15 right now. But it was such a struggle that I never kept up with meditation, someone told me just count, just count to 10,000. I’m like 150, I have to go somewhere. Buste his morning I was thinking how meditating is like trying to stop on a water slide, there is nothing to hold onto, my thoughts just keep pouring through and I can’t stop. Ton o what do you think of meditation as a practice for other people, supposedly it is incredibly powerful, it makes your brain thicker in the front, and that makes you more able to focus and be calm. Buste a it’s pretty much the cure all for everything as far as I can understand, that’s why I keep on trying to do it. Ton o why is it only practiced by these like Zenned out hippies? Buste t got bad branding, you can’t say meditation without sounding like a prick a little bit. You sound like you’re pretentious, you’re holding it over me. Fine you meditate, I can’t meditate you’re better than me, all these things. Ton have a family member who is a teacher and thinks that her class is out of control, she thinks she needs to teach these kids meditation and mindfulness. But then you know some parent is going to be like “what is this hippy doing to my child”. Buste just read “Will Power Instinct” by Kelly McGonigal, which happens to talk about meditation a lot as a way to strengthen your willpower. And it just comes up all the time as ways to solv ou live longer, you’re happier, your marriage is better, you exercise more, you can actually think about things better. But I just told her, I think it has a branding problem. Someone needs to come up with the Pepsi Cola or Coca Cola of meditation so that it seems like a cool thing to do, so that it’s not intimidating. Ton here needs to be a different champion of meditation, the Headspace guy is exactly who I would think would be talking to me, he is the most peaceful speaker with his nice UK accent, and I just like to listen to him talk. I feel like some really hardcore vicious athlete needs to come out and sa you know how I have the killer energy”… Buste enry Rollins, also like Madonna, she kind of made yoga a thing and she seems the opposite of… yoga. Ton nd then it kind of emerged together. And that’s what you kind of need, like a Kobe Bryant to sa Yeah I’m good in the clutch because I meditate, and I’m going to win every game because”… Buste he problem is that nobody can make money off of meditating, I mean people can but like… really you can’t. As soon as you really learn what it is, that’s not going to make any money. That requires doing nothing, sitting on your chair, no equipment necessary. Ton t’s a crummy product, who ever thought they could sell meditation, well I mean there is bottled water, it is possible. Buste omeone can figure it out. Ton aybe that sort of thing can be our pivot, expensive, high end meditation for cool people. Buste t’s really expensive, it’s really exclusive. Ton or materialistic people, meditation for materialistic people, I like that. I actually have a friend who is an executive coach, and he coaches a bunch of people who are hedge fund managers. And he has had several of his clients, tell him confidentially, you know, I meditate and it’s a big part of why I’m successful, but I won’t tell any of my peers, because it doesn’t fit. But if it turns out all the best Wall Street people are meditating, it would completely change the brand of meditation. Buste o this goes back to why I think goals succeed and fail, because if it’s not a part of your personality, it’s like jamming a square block into a circle hole and that’s not going to fit. You can try to transplant a bird heart into your body but you can’t wire up the blood vessels and nerve endings it’s going to be rejected. You have to find a way to convince yourself that you are the person that meditates, and that requires thinking about what you are good at, what do you like, what’s the closest thing that you identify with that is in that direction and focus on finding that angle that fits. Like for me its like “oh maybe it will help my running.” I’m a runner and runners need… running is a mental thing. Suddenly I think, okay I do it to help my running, and that fits better and I can explain that to people. Ton ike it’s a part of stretching. Buste a its just one step further.